Sultanbet Casino - Игрок пытается вывести свой выигрыш.

I made a deposit of €200 and then deposited another €200.

So I had €400 in real money.

You could get a 50% casino bonus (Triple50), up to €50, which I got afterwards.

I canceled the bonus again, then played with real money and now I want to withdraw €960.

Now I was given a payout limit of 2x €800 on my real money deposit or game session.

The terms and conditions are applied very unfairly against me in this case. Bonus terms and conditions cannot be applied from a bonus that is not active.

In addition, it is not logical and unusual to restrict/limit a real money deposit.

I have sent all the documents for verification.

Ich habe eine Einzahlung von 200€ getätigt und darauf erneut 200€ eingezahlt.

Somit hatte ich 400€ echtgeld.

Man konnte einen 50% Casino Bonus (Triple50) erlangen, bis zu 50€, den ich nachträglich bekommen habe.

Den Bonus habe ich wieder storniert, habe dann mit Echtgeld gespielt und möchte mir nun 960€ auszahlen lassen.

Nun wurde mir ein Auszahlungslimit von 2x verhängt auf 800€ auf meine Echtgeld Einzahlung bzw. Spielsitzung.

Die AGB werden in dem Fall sehr ungerecht gegen mich angewendet. Es kann nicht sein, dass Bonusbedingungen angewendet von einem Bonus der nicht aktiv ist.

Zudem ist es nicht logisch und unüblich eine Echtgeld Einzahlung einzuschränken/limitieren.

Zur Verifizierung habe ich alle Dokumente gesendet.

Dear Leons04,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint. I’m sorry to hear about your problem. Please allow me to ask you a few questions, so I can understand the whole situation completely. Could you please advise if you completed the bonus wagering before cancelling the bonus? How much is your active balance now? Do I understand correctly that you were given a payout limit of 2x €800? Have you received any winnings from this session already?

If there’s any relevant communication, please forward it to petronela.k@casino.guru.

I hope we will be able to help you to resolve this issue as soon as possible. Thank you in advance for your reply.

Best regards,

Petronela

In the meantime, I have received €800.00 for a withdrawal request of €960.00.

I also did not wager/complete the bonus.

When I canceled the bonus, my balance was the same as the deposit amount (€400).

The bonus therefore had no effect whatsoever on my balance or on the game session.

My balance is now at 0€. The €180.00 was taken from me.

Ich habe mittlerweile bei einer Auszahlungsanfrage von 960,00€, nun 800,00€ erhalten.

Den Bonus habe ich zudem nicht umgesetzt/abgeschlossen.

Als ich den Bonus storniert habe, war mein Guthaben auf der selben Höhe des Einzahlungsbetrags (400€).

Der Bonus hatte somit gar keinen Effekt auf mein Guthaben bzw. auf die Spielsitzung.

Mein Guthaben ist jetzt bei 0€. Die 180,00€ wurden mir genommen.

Have you received any explanation from the casino why your winnings have been capped? If yes, please forward it to petronela.k@casino.guru.

They justify this with the bonus guidelines.

However, the fact is that the bonus was canceled and did not affect my winnings from the beginning of the gaming session.

I played my way up to €960 real money with a pure €400 real money balance.

During the gaming session, the bonus was no longer available, so neither should its policies.

The application is designed against the player in all respects and speaks against the intention to build up a good relationship with the customer.

Sie begründen das mit den Bonus Richtlinien.

Es ist jedoch Fakt, dass der Bonus storniert wurde und von Anfang an der Spielsitzung keinen Einfluss auf meine Gewinne hatte.

Ich habe mich mit reinem 400€ Echtgeld Guthaben auf 960€ Echtgeld hochgespielt.

Während der Spielsitzung war der Bonus nicht mehr vorhanden, somit dürften dessen Richtlinien auch nicht.

Die Anwendung ist in allen Belangen gegen den Spieler ausgelegt und spricht gegen die Intention eine Gute Beziehung zu den Kunden aufzubauen.

I understand better now. Is it correct that you activated the Triple50 bonus, started to wager it but later cancelled the offer before completing the bonus wagering?

You could get a 50% casino bonus (Triple50), up to €50, which I got afterwards.

When exactly you activated this offer, please?

I canceled the bonus right at the beginning of this gaming session. He wasn't even active while I was taking the winnings.

Ich habe den Bonus direkt zu Beginn dieser Spielsitzung storniert. Er war gar nicht aktiv während ich die Gewinne geholt habe.

Ok, so you didn't complete the bonus wagering but you began to wager the promotional offer, is that correct?

I checked the maximum cashout limits for reload bonuses (here):

3.5. The following general bonus terms and conditions apply unless other is specified by our VIP Managers or is exclusively mentioned in the T&C of special bonus offers:

o Reload Bonuses:

- Sports Section: wagering x7 of the bonus and the deposit amounts , maximum withdrawal amount: 10x the amount of bonus

- Casino Section: wagering x30 of the bonus and the deposit amounts, maximum withdrawal amount: 30x the amount of bonus

These would be limits that would be applied if you completed the bonus wagering. However, if you started to wager the bonus and then cancelled before completing the required wagering, your winnings would be limited to 2x your initial deposit (as advised by the casino in their email reply):

Hello B********,

I would like to remind you that, According to the terms and conditions of the TRIPLE50 Bonus, any winnings made prior to the bonus expiring can be withdrawn by canceling the bonus but the maximum winnings that can be withdrawn will be 2x the initial deposit amount. If the winnings are made from the initial deposit, the maximum withdrawal amount will be two (2x) times the initial deposit.

As a result, your maximum withdrawal limit is 400 EUR x 2 = 800 EUR two(2x) times your initial deposit.

If you have any questions, do not hesitate to let us know.

Best regards,

Sultanbet Support

Please understand that it is nothing unusual if a player cancels their active bonus, not only the bonus itself is voided but also associated winnings. In this case you recived at least some of your accumulated winnings, which is not a standard procedure in majority of casinos.

Please understand that if that's the case, we won't be able to help you to receive any additional winnings. Please let me know if this explanation was satisfactory for you.

The bonus you receive is not associated with a deposit. I made several deposits before receiving the bonus, which is why I had a total balance of €400.

I received the bonus afterwards, which was 50% to €50.

So actually only €100 credit was involved for the bonus.

This limit was imposed based on my balance from multiple deposits. Thus, the total balance of each deposit is not directly related to the bonus

Der Bonus den man erhält ist mit keiner Einzahlung verbunden. Ich habe nämlich mehrere Einzahlungen vor dem Erhalt vom Bonus gehabt, weshalb ich insgesamt 400€ Guthaben hatte.

Den Bonus habe ich nachträglich erhalten, welcher 50% bis 50€ waren.

Somit waren eigentlich nur 100€ Guthaben für den Bonus involviert.

Ausgehend von meinem Guthaben aus mehreren Einzahlungen wurde dieses Limit verhängt. Somit hängt das ganze Guthaben jeder Einzahlung nicht direkt mit dem Bonus zusammen

Could you please forward screenshots of your cashier and bonus histories to petronela.k@casino.guru? Thank you in advance.

I turned over 12% because I was just playing with the bonus and was doing sports betting. But then I lost the bonus very quickly.

I couldn't cancel the bonus myself and the real money sports betting winnings (around €400) were confiscated which was fine due to the T&Cs.

My balance has been reset to €400 original amount.

However, the second/continuous game session without this bonus is an issue.

From that point on I only actively made profits with real money without a bonus.

Ich habe 12% umgesetzt, da ich nur mit dem Bonus gespielt hatte und währenddessen Sportwetten gemacht habe. Den Bonus hatte ich dann aber sehr schnell verloren.

Den Bonus konnte ich nicht selber stornieren und die Sportwetten Gewinne aus Echtgeld (ungefähr 400€) wurden beschlagnahmt, was aber in Ordnung war aufgrund der AGB.

Mein Guthaben wurde auf 400€ ursprünglicher Betrag zurückgesetzt.

Die zweite/fortlaufende Spielsitzung ohne diesen Bonus ist aber Thema.

Ab dem Zeitpunkt habe ich ohne Bonus nur aktiv mit Echtgeld Gewinne gemacht.

Thank you very much, Leons04, for providing all the necessary information. I will now transfer your complaint to my colleague Matej (matej@casino.guru) who will be at your assistance. I wish you best of luck and hope to see your problem being resolved to your satisfaction in the near future.  

Hello Leons04,

I am sorry to hear about your troubles.

I would like to invite the casino representative into the case:

Dear casino representative, could you please check the case and explain to us what happened?

Dear Matej, 

Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention.

We have had a thorough review of the user’s account, along with their full gaming activity and would like to shed some light on the matter.

We can see that the customer had in fact made two separate deposits of 200 EUR each, with the latter one being tied to the claimed 50% reload bonus. They first placed the entirety of their deposited funds on a sports bet and then proceeded to play on slots with their bonus balance until they exhausted it down to 0.50 EUR upon which they cancelled their bonus, which was their first violation of our corresponding bonus' Terms and Conditions, which state the following:

4. The deposit and bonus can be used on Casino and Live Casino but cannot be used on Sports Betting. If used, all winnings will be seized.

After exhausting their bonus balance and having cancelled their bonus, the previously placed sports bet was shortly after voided and all 400 EUR returned to the player’s account.

They have subsequently proceeded to continue placing bets on sports events with their first one being for 357.14 EUR, which we could also consider has been placed partly with their deposit, which was not tied to the reload (200 EUR), and the remaining 157.14 EUR was from the deposit tied with the used reload bonus. Therefore should we consider that the customer was allowed to play on both different events, this would still mean that 44% of the subsequent winnings of 507.14 EUR would be tied to the funds connected to the reload bonus, meaning that the winnings on the balance would be split into 284 EUR (from their non-tied deposit) and 223 EUR (from the deposit tied to the reload).

Afterwards the customer placed a bet for 262.51 EUR, which was lost. Considering the fact that with non-sticky reload bonuses customers first play with their deposited amount and subsequently with bonus funds, we can consider that the entirely of the bet was placed with their first deposit, not tied to the reload, meaning that the remaining funds from the separate deposit would be 21.5 EUR.

The customer has since proceeded to place a number of sports bets with mostly funds from the deposit tied to the claimed reload bonus.

Upon a detailed investigation of all bets and the percentage of funds originating from the separate deposits, we can see that the user’s ultimate balance of 960 EUR has 174.83 EUR originating from the sole deposit and 785.17 EUR which would be from the deposit, tied to the reload bonus in question.

We would like to draw attention to the following two terms of our promotion’s Terms and Conditions:

4. The deposit and bonus can be used on Casino and Live Casino but cannot be used on Sports Betting. If used, all winnings will be seized.

11. Any winnings made prior to the bonus expiring can be withdrawn by cancelling the bonus, but the maximum winnings that can be withdrawn will be 2x the initial deposit amount. If the winnings are made from the initial deposit, the maximum withdrawal amount will be two (2x) times the initial deposit.

Should term 4 be enacted, the amount of 785.15 EUR should have been adjusted down to the original deposit amount of 200 EUR and the amount of 585.15 EUR should have been removed from the player’s account as the customer has used their deposit to play on sports and the bonus funds on slots.

Due to an error on our part in checking the player’s activity we have erroneously only negative adjusted 160 EUR from the player’s balance instead of 585.15 EUR, which actually led to us paying out more to the user than we originally should have.

Should we also even solely consider term 11 we would still need to adjust down to the 2x max winnings from the original 200 EUR deposit amount, which would still require a negative balance adjustment of 385.15 EUR (785.15 EUR – 400 EUR), leading to us ultimately paying out more to the user.

Since the excess amount which we have paid to the player was due to an error on our side, with this we would like to consider this matter to be resolved.

Thank you once again for bringing this to our attention.

Kind regards, 

Sultanbet

1. I have previously written that I acknowledge and agree that winnings from sports betting were confiscated while I had the bonus.

Nevertheless, it was of course not clear afterwards which credit should be "bound" and which should not. This is for your part only to be evaluated according to interpretation.

Also, applying the rule to cancel a bonus is not actually a breach of the rule. In this situation with €400.00 real money and €0.50 bonus you have no other choice.

Ultimately, it is not possible to tie a deposit to a "Non Sticky Bonus" that you have to purchase yourself after depositing.

Especially if the balance was already higher anyway

1. Ich habe bereits vorher geschrieben, dass ich eingestehe und den zugestimmt habe das die Gewinne aus Sportwetten während ich den Bonus hatte beschlagnahmt wurden.

Nichtsdestotrotz war danach natürlich nicht ersichtlich, welches Guthaben "gebunden" sein soll und welches nicht. Das ist eurerseits nur nach Interpretation zu bewerten.

Zudem ist die Anwendung der Regel einen Bonus zu stornieren eigentlich kein Regelbruch. In dieser Situation mit 400,00€ Echtgeld und 0,50€ Bonus hat man gar keine andere Wahl.

Letztendlich ist es nicht möglich eine Einzahlung an einen "Non Sticky Bonus" zu binden, den man nach der Einzahlung selbstständig selber erwerben muss.

Besonders wenn der Guthaben dann sowieso vorher schon höher war

I had to purchase the 50% bonus myself after depositing.

The maximum bonus was €50, which allowed me to tie a maximum of €100 real money to the bonus.

With a total credit of €400.00 and a final balance of €960.00, I have multiplied my credit by 2.4x.

Thus, only €100 of the real money can be associated with the bonus anyway.

400 * 2.4 = €960 (original ending balance)

300 * 2.4 = 720€

100 * 2 = €200 (2x through bonus policy)

= 920€ and therefore 120€ still outstanding.

It was only from 400€ as a deposit amount

Ich musste den 50% Bonus selbstständig nach der Einzahlung erwerben.

Der maximale Bonus war 50€, womit ich maximal 100€ Echtgeld an den Bonus binden konnte.

Bei einem Gesamtguthaben von 400,00€ und einem Endsaldo von 960,00€ habe ich dementsprechend mein Guthaben um 2,4x vermehrfacht.

Somit können ohnehin nur 100€ des Echtgeld mit dem Bonus in Verbindung gebracht werden.

400 * 2,4 = 960€ (ursprüngliches Endsaldo)

300 * 2,4 = 720€

100 * 2 = 200€ (2x durch Bonus Richtlinie)

= 920€ und somit noch ausstehende 120€.

Es wurde erst von 400€ als Einzahlungsbetrag

Dear casino representative,

Would you mind sending me the Leons04 game log so I can check your logic? (matej@casino.guru)

Thanks.

Dear Matej,

Please note that we have sent the requested information via email to the aforementioned email address.

Kind regards, 

Sultanbet

Dear casino representative and Leons04,

After checking the log and making my own calculation, I believe that the casino acted correctly.

1.   In most casinos, after violation of the rules, the casino would most likely refund the deposits and close the player's account.
2.    The logic of the casino representative is correct (good work)

From Leons04's 2 deposits of 200, one was tied with a bonus. Even after cancelling the bonus, this amount still has a max cashout of 2x the deposit (2x 200 = 400)

 From the moment when the initial sports bet (400) was cancelled, 200 was real money and 200 (despite representing real money was still a bonus with a max cashout of 400) Because real money was used first most of the real balance was lost and later winnings origin mostly from bonus money.

In this case, I would say that the casino was generous in the way how they pay the Leons04.

Unfortunately, the whole thing is only interpretation and not really understandable. Especially if the balance is viewed as a whole and the bonus was received afterwards.

Actually, my primary concern was that it is a very unfair rule towards the players.

Nor would I speak of generosity. On the one hand, the bonus amount was 1/4 of the associated deposit (€50) and I ended up winning €960 in sports betting with real money.

I received €400.

I was concerned about how unfair this rule was, since the bonus ultimately had no relation to the win and the relation between the bonus amount and the win are completely different levels.

Leider ist das ganze nur Interpretation und nicht richtig einsehbar. Besonders wenn das Guthaben als ganzes angesehen wird und der Bonus nachträglich erhalten wurde.

Eigentlich ging es mir primär darum, dass es eine sehr unfaire Regel gegenüber der Spieler ist.

Von Großzügigkeit würde ich zudem auch nicht sprechen. Zum einem war der Bonusbetrag 1/4 der verbunden Einzahlung (50€) und ich habe am Ende in Sportwetten mit reinem Echtgeld 960€ erspielt.

Erhalten habe ich 400€.

Es ging mir darum, wie unfair diese Regel sei, da der Bonus letztendlich gar keinen Bezug zum Gewinn hatte und die Relation vom Bonusbetrag und dem Gewinn komplett andere Ebenen sind.

I agree that it is about the point of view.

If you dislike the bonus, you don't need to take it.

Here is why I think you were lucky to have at least $400.

Immediately after you get the bonus, you breached the terms and conditions.

(you stashed the real balance in the sporting bet and played with bonus money first - which is an unfair advantage) - the majority of the casinos would return your deposits after this breach.

After you cancel the bonus, there is still a rule about max win = 2x deposit.

That's why I think you were lucky, and you have no right to any other winnings.

I think it's good that we agree on this point. I have to admit that I didn't read the terms and conditions properly when I received the bonus. Nevertheless, I did not question and accepted the collection of the first winnings by violating the rules.

Regardless of whether it is luck or not. It doesn't matter at the end of the situation. It's about facts and not about interpretations and assessments and in the end the fact is that the bonus had no influence on the subsequent winnings and the rule is completely unusual and unfair.

Das wir uns in diesem Punkt einig sind finde ich gut. Ich muss eingestehen, dass ich bei Erhalt vom Bonus die AGB leider nicht richtig studiert habe. Nichtsdestotrotz habe ich den Einzug der ersten Gewinne durch den Regelverstoß nicht in Frage gestellt und akzeptiert.

Unabhängig davon, ob es sich um Glück handelt oder nicht. Das spielt am Ende der Situation keine Rolle. Es geht um Fakten und nicht um Interpretationen und Einschätzungen und Fakt ist am Ende, dass der Bonus zum einen gar keinen Einfluss auf die nachfolgenden Gewinne hatten und die Regel komplett unüblich und unfair ist.

Dear Leons04,

Bonuses are something like a second chance. When a player uses all his real money, he can use bonus funds to continue playing.

In your case, you hid your real money in a sports bet and played down all your bonus funds. Then you cancelled the bonus, and now you are pretending that this money is real money. This is unfair. In every other casino, you would be happy if you at least get back your deposits.

So I am writing it again; you were lucky that you were able to withdraw part of the winnings.

If this were allowed, then everybody would deposit, take a bonus, play a bonus, and in case of losing all the bonus money, withdraw the real money and take the next bonus.

This is the final answer. If you are unhappy with the outcome, contact the casino's regulator.

I hadn't complained about that fact. In addition, it is also stipulated to me that the resulting profits will be confiscated.

Subsequent winnings have nothing to do with the previous bonus.

Über diese Tatsache hatte ich mich nicht beschwert. Zudem ist es auch mir festgelegt, dass die daraus folgenden Gewinne beschlagnahmt werden.

Die darauffolgenden Gewinne haben mit dem vorherigen Bonus nichts zu tun.

This case is not about subsequent winnings. You breached the bonus's terms and conditions and gained an unfair advantage.

You are lucky that you were able to withdraw at least something.

I have nothing else to say in this case; therefore, we are rejecting this case for obvious reasons.

If you are unhappy with our decision, please submit your complaint to the casino regulator. (however, the result will be the same; I am 100% sure)

Dear Leons04,

We are extending the timer by 7 days. Please, be aware that in case you fail to respond in the given time frame or don’t require any further assistance, we will reject the complaint.

Due to the aforementioned reasons, this complaint will now be rejected. Thank you for your understanding, I am sorry we could not be of more help on this occasion. Please do not hesitate to contact us if you run into any issues with this or any other casino in the future.